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The Big Payback / So Wat Cha Sayin' (7")7" Import Single Black Vinyl A: The Big Payback (LP Version) B: So Wat Cha Sayin (LP Version) By the time of their second album, 1989s Unfinished Business, EPMD were firmly cemented in the rap stratosphere. With one certified classic album under their belts, they proved they were no one hit wonders, with the sequel possibly even better. A concise 12 tracker once again produced by the artists themselves, it saw them adhering to the if it aint broke,
7" Import Single Black Vinyl
A: The Big Payback (LP Version) / B: So Wat Cha Sayin’ (LP Version)
By the time of their second album, 1989’s ‘Unfinished Business’, EPMD were firmly cemented in the rap stratosphere. With one certified classic album under their belts, they proved they were no one-hit wonders, with the sequel possibly even better. A concise 12 tracker once again produced by the artists themselves, it saw them adhering to the ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ maxim, while going somewhat ‘bigger’.
In other words, guests started to appear – not just on the records, but in the videos – and marketing budgets were higher. None of which watered down their sound. In fact, this is the ultimate EPMD record: a beat that’s simple but perfect, and two top-of-their-game MC’s going back and forth. But the appearance of NWA in the video for ‘The Big Payback’ hints at their reputation at the time – and at the cordial relations between coasts before the deadly beef that was to come.
‘Payback’ takes both its title and core sample from James Brown’s ‘The Payback’ from 1973, and then weaves two more JB elements with it, including the addictive stabs from ‘Baby, Here I Come’. It’s a golden track from the golden age.
The B-side is another gem from the same album, and only released before on 7” in a very rare, limited pressing. ‘So Wat Cha Sayin’ was the album’s lead single, and shows EPMD’s wide sampling palette. There’s bits of BT Express, a whole lot of Funkadelic and, brilliantly, some drums lifted from Soul II Soul’s gem from just the year before, ‘Fairplay’. Lyrically, it’s just all about threats to sucker’s MC’s – what else do you want from EPMD?
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4.4 ★★★★★
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Product Reviews
★★★★★ 5
Imposing and Exceptional Quality
Format: Hardcover
The content and quality of the ESV commentary series matches that of their study Bibles. Broadly reformed, but not dogmatic on a particular angle, clear and concise, great for study. This commentary set isn't so much for digging deep in the weeds as it is for learning a solid Biblical Theology-based framework of the Bible. It's simpler than some, but much more in-depth than the ESV Study Bible, making it the next step for learning.
The full set is imposing - lovely big, black hardbacks which look phenomenal on a bookshelf. Do I think this is practical for everybody? No, it might not be. You can get this kind of thing in digital form in one way or another these days (please understand that I don't like to go quite that digital, and I haven't researched what all is available). If you're pressed for living space, you might not want these. I live with a spouse in a midsize one-bedroom apartment. Fortunately, we already knew we wanted to prioritize some of our space for physical books, because we find pleasure in them. I will have to clear off some of my existing bookshelf space and relegate some books to a box in storage (consider that this set takes up all the space in a fairly large packing box, and you'll know how much you need). But it's worth it for me.
I also see the acquisition of this box set as a bit of a prompt to take back up more in-depth study of the Scripture, which too often gets sidetracked by the rest of life getting in the way. Having the physical books are already something of a commitment. If all I had were ebooks or an app, I would likely never utilize them the same way.
Last notes: these were packed very well. Each volume is shrink-wrapped in cellophane and none of the corners were damaged. They did a good job with that. Lastly, the price for these is fairly high. I acknowledge that. I think theological books are about on the same level, usually, however. So I did not see the need to deduct a star.
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Reviewed in the United States on June 30, 2025
★★★★★ 5
A fun and fulfilling book - would love to own the series
Format: Paperback
I had a lot of fun with this book. About a year ago, I really came down on the side of presuppositionalism and have studied the approach, see if it was useful against two of the leading atheistic books (God Is Not Great and The God Delusion), and now I wanted to match it up against four other views of apologetics. I will try to not go into too much detail here as I think the book is an important read for developing an apologetic standpoint.
The book follows the 1)"model of Approach X is presented" then 2) "Response from other 4 approaches to counter Approach X" and then move on to the next approach. The book allows final statements from each writer for a final opportunity. Steven Cowan has a good introduction and epilogue that bookends the book well.
Craig (Classical Approach) really surprised me as he brings in the role of the Holy Spirit early into the conversation. I really thought I was going to just be reading the finer points of the Kalam argument he's known for. The role of the Holy Spirit is reflected in the other authors' approaches as well and that was nice to see. It's also nice to see Craig debating with Christians for once and it's here that you really get to see his thought process contrasting with other people with the same worldview. There are issues that Craig tries to bring up against the presuppositionist view point that could be applied for him. He doesn't seem to get that all foundations are, by definition, circular because if you can appeal to something more foundational, then your foundation isn't your foundation at all. Craig seems to bring in some higher concepts about probability to make some of his points and I think that's really a miss for anyone who's not a high level philosopher (and even some philosophers might have issues understand what he's talking about here).
Habermas (Evidential Approach) seems to have an undue hatred for presuppositionalism. He's also another person who doesn't realize that the approach he uses isn't really the foundation he is starting from. I think he resents doing the hard work that the other approaches then build up to.
Feinberg (Cumulative Case Approach) seems to miss the point of presuppositionalism entirely. He's got the approach of what I call the "shotgun approach" in the sense that he wants to use everything possible and sees what he hits.
Frame (Presuppostional Approach) does an ok job with presenting the method. I don't think he would be my first choice in representing the approach. He doesn't do a good job of explaining the "problem of circularity" isn't a problem. He just does an "ok" job.
Clark (Reformed Epistemological Approach) is one I was excited to read. I liked some of his points he made when talking about the other approaches. Then I read his approach and was extremely disappointed. The biggest flaw is that he states literally that his approach doesn't help to show the Christian God is real. I would say then your apologetic method is worthless and not a real method at all. I understand the R.E. approach but if I went only with Clark's explanation and argumentation, I wouldn't have even considered it a real area of focus.
The book is well laid out, the footnotes are at the bottom of the pages (SO helpful!), Cowan does a good job of wrangling the writers and offering expanded reading and other authors for each area of focus.
Myself and my mentor spent from January to August every other week going over and discussing the book. Finding flaws, comparing and contrasting, and seeing where points were made and where points were missed. I think the biggest deficit we found was that the writers tended to assume agreement on definitions of words that played a big role (for example - the word "evidence" NEEDED to be defined right off the bat by every author and it wasn't until Frame in his response to the objections raised did we even have one person define it).
My suggestion for this book to maximize the fun is to pick a method and try and defend that method throughout; even with the writer arguing your side. My book is filled with notes and highlights that just made this book a great enjoyment to meet and discuss with a fellow Believer about. It does not settle all the issues, but it does help you focus on the fact that we still aren't done learning yet. Final Grade - A-
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Reviewed in the United States on November 13, 2013
★★★★★ 4
Great Introduction to the Various Schools of Apologetics
Format: Paperback
In reading "Five Views on Apologetics", I first had to wonder why the book was called "Five Views" and not "Three Views", since the first three authors admittedly had so much in common with each other that it seemed that their positions were subcategories of a singular system of apologetics. In fact, Habermas claimed Craig as an evidentialist on multiple occasions and admitted they had relatively minor disagreements. Feinberg was also an evidentialist, but he differed from Habermas and Craig in supposing that any one argument could possibly be persuasive to a skeptic. All three individuals definitely agreed on so much though that their three essays proved to be slightly disappointing as in the end, I figured that any one of them practically utilized a combination of all three approaches (I've heard Craig make cumulative case presentations...). I wondered exactly why they were representing different apologetic camps.
Don't get me wrong: I like Craig and Hambermas and Feinberg; they're brothers in the Lord. I just find that evidentialism's off-shoots are so similar to each other that taking three chapters for the various forms of evidentialism didn't seem that worthwhile.
Ironically, it seemed that the other two views of were related by what seemed like a mutual distaste for the other, Frame wrote that he "was rather disappointed at Clark's treatment of the role of the Bible in determining apologetic principles" (310) and the suggestion that Clark might not have "tried hard enough to find out what the Bible says" (310) also seemed like a needless jab, but Frame still commended Clark on plenty and suggested that "presuppositionalists too are Reformed epistemologists" (312).
On the other hand, Clark wrote that Frame's essay is "the best version of presuppositionalism I have ever read" but then went on to suggest that presuppositionalism (at least as presented by Van Til) was either too confusing for him or was "obviously false" (255). Clark parroted the often repeated gross misunderstanding of presuppositionalism that "non-christians cannot know anything" (256), suggested that Frame implied this concept (257) and then spent several paragraphs refuting an obviously silly postulate; it's strange how Clark would insinuate that Frame would be so plainly stupid and I got the idea that Clark thought that all presuppositional apologists were somehow mentally lacking.
Even in my early reading of Van Til, I understood that he was writing about how unbelievers cannot account for how they know anything, not whether or not they can know anything. What was even more alarming was Clarks' confession that "anyone can find some support for his or her position in Scripture" (275), as if scripture lacks a clear meaning and is somehow malleable enough to consistently conform to anyone's presuppositions. I was left dissatisfied by how Clark didn't seem to exhibit reformed theology and I was also puzzled why Frame didn't present the Transcendental Argument for the Existence of God (the main positive argument of presuppositionalism). What was even more humerous was how Craig presented a fairly solid version of the transcendental argument and gave Frame a slight poke for not presenting the "main course" of presuppositionalism.
On the whole, I found "Five Views" to be reflective of much of my general feelings of the current state of apologetics; too distracted, too unscriptural, and too confusing. It was a difficult read at times; William Lane Craig's constant scampering into symbolic logic was frustrating and made me wonder whether the publisher clearly communicated the target audience to the authors.
I was disappointed that none of the authors attempted to establish any component of their case from scriptural exegesis but instead presented philosophical constructs aided by proof texts (i.e. Habermas referenced Romans 8:16 on page 97 as `proof' that the Holy Spirit may work through apologetics to bring "full assurance to believers", arguably not the meaning of Romans 8:16).
I also found myself wondering if the authors were agreeing on theological points due to lack of clarity (i.e. Craig's writing about the inner witness of the Holy Spirit was general enough that it sounded Mormon...). The book was good, and it DID expose me to five (arguably) different apologetic systems, but I hesitate to give it 5 stars due to some of the weak/unclear presentations of the systems and the thought that this isn't the best that evangelicalism has to offer.
It's still a worthwhile buy and I'm likely being too hard on it. I'd recommend it as an intro book for a college level Apologetics class, or for someone who's already familiar with theology and the concept of apologetics but isn't familiar with it in depth.
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Reviewed in the United States on November 4, 2009
★★★★★ 5
Great Contrasts
Format: Paperback
Cowan tells us, "This is a book about apologetics methodology, not a book of apologetics per se. That is, it is not a book that seeks to do apologetics as much as a book that discusses how one ought to do apologetics" (8).
Cowan has achieved the stated purposes of this book in many ways, but due to limited space I will stay focused on three examples; Glossary of Key Terms and Concepts, format, and conclusion by Cowan.
Glossary of Key Terms and Concepts (21-24) in this initial section of the book provide a clear and useful starting place for persons who are not academically familiar or comfortable with many terms used in the book. The fact that the key terms section included and defined conceptual terms supports the stated purpose of the book being a methodological rather than an apologetic book with multiple views from various writers' specific understandings and preferred styles of apologetics. As a new person to formal apologetics, this section helped launch me smoothly into the methodological discussions. I returned to these pages a few times to reacquaint myself with meaningful concepts.
The format of the discussion with proponents making a methodological case for their form of apologetic followed by critiques from supporters of other apologetic systems brought clarity to the five methods addressed in this book. This format help to highlight both strengths and weaknesses in methods. Cowan as the general editor achieved the goal of keeping the writers away from apologetics and on the goal of providing defense and critiques of these five methods. Each supporter had a unique "tee-up" to their sections. Craig starts by stating, "...methodology in Christian apologetics...raising the age-old issue of the relationship between faith and reason." He goes on further in his introduction to tell a story about his struggle at Wheaton College and why his methodology was helpful to his faith (26). Habermas clarifies that his form of evidential apologetics is, "...characterized as the one-step approach..." (92).This initial piece of information was insightful to me and a helpful clarification between classical and evidential methods. Feinberg on Cumulative Apologetics points out, "A good place to begin the discussion of apologetic methodology is to ask about the nature of the case for theism and Christianity" (148). Frame was probably the most direct in his initial statement by saying, "In apologetics, as in every aspect of the Christian life, the most important thing is to glorify God. Therefore, it is important for us to look in God's Word, the Bible, to see if our Lord gives us any directives relevant to the apologetic task" (208). In principle agree, but I will admit, I find his form of apologetics to be too circular in nature to be convincing to an unbelieving skeptic - as a standalone method. Christians I think would all say, well of course. Clark's section begins with stories meant to set the stage that it is reasonable have faith. Clark writes, "My suppose-this and suppose-that stories are intended to raise the problem of the relationship of our important beliefs to evidence" (267). Each of the five supporters of their method successfully introduced their unique method of apologetics.
Cowan regarding to his conclusions says, "Hopefully, this will not only help you, the reader, make your own decisions regarding apologetic methodology, but will also provide a basis for further discussion of the topic among scholars. Cowan's conclusions assured that main points of agreement and disagreement were clear. Here as with the other sections, the textual comments were method focused.
My criticism is pointed at the spirit of the debate. The writers did not draw enough contrasting between apologetic methods to clearly show that their individual method should be favored. I think the tone was a little too stilted in the direction of "playing" nice. In a book that purports to have five methods, there were times it seemed like only three or four methods. I guess this is inescapable give that each apologetic style can share some parts in common with another. Yet Craig shares my feeling here, I believe, based on his statement, "Pity our poor editor! Ideally he would like to find a wild-eyed fideist on one end of the spectrum and a hard-nosed theological rationalist on the other. Instead he winds up with a presuppositionalist who argues like an evidentialist..." (122).
Overall Five Views on Apologetics provides a good compare and contrast resource for anyone interested in these five common methods of apologetics.
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Reviewed in the United States on March 18, 2011
★★★★★ 5
Condense Analysis of 5 of the most notable Apologist
Format: Paperback
Looking for a quick reference guide to the major theorist of Apologic study, this book is a great resource.
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Reviewed in the United States on October 12, 2024